Next step from a Lama

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gords
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Next step from a Lama

by gords » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:18 pm

This is a bit premature but here goes ...

What is the next step up from a Lama?

I would like something that is capable of flying outdoors in light to moderate (?) wind. It would also need to be suitable for a beginner like me :wink:

I'm happy to try putting one together (ARF?), if RTF packages are less likely / more expensive. I guess I'm into (looking at) a CP type, so I assume I would need a new transmitter (6ch?).

Other than that, I have no idea :) I've looked through the HeliGuy shop and read some similar posts here, but I'm still no clearer.
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MyRobins22
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by MyRobins22 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:56 pm

One of 3 choices depending on budget.

Honey Bee King 2
Falcon 3D
Belt CP

Not sure about the Falcon but both the King 2 and Belt can be purchased bare bones kits or up to full spec with Esky transmitter (RTF - well if the purchaser can actually fly a rc heli that is).

If you go the bare bones way you can purchase a tx, rx, servos etc of your choice.
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gords
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by gords » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:41 am

MyRobins22 wrote:Honey Bee King 2
Falcon 3D
Belt CP

They all appear to be within a price range that I like (sub £200). The Falcon 3D looks very nice, but that's not necessarily the best way to choose ... or is it?!

Do any have outstanding features, or better spares/upgrades, over the others? Do they fly differently?

I think I prefer the complete package option, so I don't have to get into thinking about all the radio kit, etc!
Gordon

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MyRobins22
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by MyRobins22 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:36 am

Hello Gordon,

I have the King 2 that I have been pleased with. But at the end of the day you will have to just read the different forums here to see what other people say.

All of these helis have a lot more power and are very responsive compared to the Lama v3. It really is another world.

I selected that choice because all are well supported for parts, upgrades etc.

The problem with the King 2 is that it needs the brushless motor, esc.
I think the Falcon includes them as standard, but not sure about the Belt.

The Belt is larger than the other two, and may be better to fly and be more stable once mastered.

I can't recommend one over another, that choice is yours, there are just so many different helis these days. What ever your choice you will need at least some spare main blades as that first crash always seems to happen not matter how careful you are.

Just another thought, it's a lot easier to start with if the heli also has a Head Lock gyro. Again not sure which includes as standard if any.

Come on people, share your thoughts with Gordon
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gords
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by gords » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:53 am

MyRobins22 wrote:Come on people, share your thoughts with Gordon
Yeah, come on people! :wink: :lol:

I appreciate that it's not easy to suggest one particular model - but models can be eliminated if lots of people dislike them :wink:

Also, I appreciate that this style of heli will be completely different to the Lama. It only recently twigged with me what fixed pitch means - in terms of controlling a heli. Although the Lama is fun (and still challenging!), I really want to learn to fly a CP heli :)

Being very much a beginner, I understand that there will be crashes so comments about the helicopter's robustness and cost of spares are very important.

I would like to buy something that will enable me to learn, but also keep me entertained as my skills improve. If there is such a thing?!
Gordon

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Sooty
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by Sooty » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:11 pm

I find my King11 is tougher than my Belt, maybe partly due to the lower weight. My Belt just eats maingears at slightest bump.
Belt is slightly more stable than the King , which in turn means the King is more responsive. King needs to be upgraded to brushless, Belt already has a reasonable brushless motor fitted. Both are good value for the money.
I can't speak for the falcon, but I agree that it looks pretty.

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gords
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by gords » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:47 pm

Sooty wrote:King needs to be upgraded to brushless

Why is that? Actually, what is "brushless" all about? :oops:
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Sooty
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by Sooty » Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:43 am

The stock brushed motor doesn't last very long, mainly due to overheating and destroying the carbon brushes. There is lots of info on suitable brushless motors in the different forums, but a simplified explaination is :-
Brushless motors are more efficient and usually lighter (always a good thing) than a brushed motor of similar size. This means you get more power or longer flight times (usually both) from a similar sized motor that lasts VERY much longer. They do need a brushless ESC to work though so you would need to replace both the standard motor and the ESC with brushless versions.

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gords
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by gords » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:05 pm

Well, the question has now been answered / sorted - see this post for details :wink: :D
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getndachopr
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by getndachopr » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:31 am

Would a Walkera 36 be suitable? :?

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by importednights » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:28 am

If you looking for a ARTF version of upgrade may i suggest my special request thread at £350 ONO (that includes the Heli / 2.4ghz tx and RX plus loads and loads of extras only 2 weeks old). Would be a steal to purchase considering the Heliguy offers around 370 + VAT etc are just the TX and Heli as such.. Only a thought..

Otherwise i would suggest the TREX but once again this cost but you wont need to upgrade for a while
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[align=center]Current Fleet - Trex 450 X EP & Trex 450 SE V2[/align]

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gords
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by gords » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:03 pm

After trashing my lama by crashing into a pond, I jumped at the chance to get the HoneyBee King 2 being sold by stallionkeys (see link in my last post).

Sorry, importednights but that was before yours was advertised. Also, your's is (would have been) out of my budget at the moment!

Admin - as far as I'm concerned this post can be closed, thanks.
Gordon

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importednights
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by importednights » Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:05 pm

glad you got a heli that was right for you, enjoy mate
[align=center]Ex Heli's - HBK2 / Falcon / CP Belt / Zoom 425[/align]

[align=center]Current Fleet - Trex 450 X EP & Trex 450 SE V2[/align]

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by buhdda » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:33 am

I would recommend a fixed pitch heli as the next step up from a Lama coaxial for a beginner. There is a very long learning curve to mastering a CCPM like the Honeybee King 2 or Falcon 3D or any CCPM model. something like a Honeybee FP would probably be less frustrating for a beginner to learn and master before steping up to a CCPM. :D

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by Friskle » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:20 pm

buhdda wrote:I would recommend a fixed pitch heli as the next step up from a Lama coaxial for a beginner. There is a very long learning curve to mastering a CCPM like the Honeybee King 2 or Falcon 3D or any CCPM model. something like a Honeybee FP would probably be less frustrating for a beginner to learn and master before steping up to a CCPM. :D


A little down to the person i feel, since upgrading from an FP to CP, i found the CP to be far more stable, less jittery, and generally easier to hover with than my Twister V2, yes i understand the FP has taught me to hover etc, but..i personally really feel that i should have gone for a small CP to start off with, imho opinion i think i would have had less frustration starting out with a small CP rather than an FP heli, due to the CP being far more responsive.
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gords
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by gords » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:52 pm

The Lama was a good start and I probably wouldn't have got another heli just yet, but the repair bill for the Lama was big enough to make me think.

I didn't see any point in going to another FP model - it seems to me that a CP version is more life-like! I know it's a steep learning curve, but that's a lot of the attraction :wink:

I was offered the chance to by a HH gyro by the chap I bought the HB King from, but I decided (rightly or wrongly?!) that I didn't want any aids while learning :wink: :lol:
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vespine
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by vespine » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:37 am

Not sure if I understand you correctly but I don't think you'll find anyone who flies CP choppers calling HH an "aid", not so much as to think of it somehow "cheating" or taking a short cut while you are learning. I think you are misunderstanding what a HH does, it's not like an autopilot module or something, it's pretty much a necessity on any decent CP chopper. I don’t think you could really call a 6ch chopper "RTF" if it didn't have a gyro on it, I've never seen anyone build something decent like a trex without one. I was going to try to make a car analogy but it isn't like manual vs auto, that's exactly what it is NOT like, don't think that. Using a gyro won't make you a lazy pilot, and you don't "lose" any control because you have a gyro, you actually gain MORE control, because your helicopter isn't spinning wildly and randomly. It's more like a car's suspension, can you imagine someone saying they don't want to learn to drive in a car that has the "aid" of suspension?

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by gords » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:51 am

vespine wrote:Not sure if I understand you correctly...

It's perfectly possible that I'm the one that doesn't understand - I'm very new to this :wink:

My understanding of a HH gyro, as opposed to the standard gyro, is that the HH one attempts to keep the heli pointing in the same direction until you move the rudder stick left or right. Therefore, as long as I don't push left or right, the heli would remain in the same orientation (tail towards me).

Without the HH feature, the heli will tend to turn left (the Lama did and so does the King) therefore requiring me to deal with that as well as the various cyclic inputs.

Am I misunderstanding what a HH Gyro does? Is there a "sticky" somewhere that explains it, or could someone confirm their correct function please :)
Gordon

"This isn't flying. This is falling with style!"

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